Curse

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 03:28 AM // 03:28

ok i have 2 toons atm, a sin and a ranger

i decided i wanted to make a paragon, and have been thinking of how and which heroes to grab. as i looked at my other 2 toons (and hero builds everywhere else) i noticed i have a tendency to stick with pretty much the same common heroes most people use (except for my 2 volley paras and full volley/barrage group). anyway

i noticed that there is an E/Mo hero build that has actually been pretty good through my testing, now i was wondering if anyone ever thought of using an E/Rit SoS build, and if they have what are/were the opinions on them.

was thinking:
Flesh of my flesh
Painful Bond
SoS (of course)
Agony
Bloodsong
Splinter weapon
Spirit siphon

remember, this build is for hero
fire away

Life Bringing · Jan 11, 2011, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Theres no point to an e/rt SoS. A rit is far superior

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 03:53 AM // 03:53

i understand, but considering it is much easier to get 2 elementalist before you can even think of unlocking any of the 2 rits, i was thinking E/Rit

Chthon · Jan 11, 2011, 04:00 AM // 04:00

No. Do not run crap builds because you don't have a hero unlocked. Go unlock the hero. It's not like Razah requires a full set of torment gems anymore.

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

No. Do not run crap builds because you don't have a hero unlocked. Go unlock the hero. It's not like Razah requires a full set of torment gems anymore.

sooooo..... trying something different is crap?? last i checked thats how builds are made is by trying something that most peeps haven't done.

ok, waiting for a response from the more experienced people from this forum, so that i can at least get a reason as why my build is "crap"

and BTW: this hero is for a new toon, and sadly the only campaign i haven't finished is NF, but i am working on it, so Xandra is the only Rit i can unlock at the time of this posting

Life Bringing · Jan 11, 2011, 04:23 AM // 04:23

So get xandra? Unfortunately for you, Chthon is arguably the most experienced person who regularly contributes to the Campfire. There are no advantages to running an ele primary in this situation, as they lack runes, spawning and worth in their primary attribute for the build.

It's not so much that you're trying something different, its that you haven't thought through the reasons why a rit primary is used. An e/mo excels beyond what a monk could hope to accomplish in protting because it has unlimited energy to spam the prots that a monk's energy management can't handle. This bar, however, has no advantages over a rit.

Edit: I assume that you're trying to run spiritway as you mention that you need 2 rits. My advice would be to make xandra the SoS, bring the AotL, and then probably a Panic for the last hero. With those three heroes, you'll coast through NF with no effort whatsoever, especially if you pick up SY to spam on your paragon

LifeInfusion · Jan 11, 2011, 04:29 AM // 04:29

I'd sooner run R/Rt spirit spam than E/Rt. Expertise actually cuts down skill costs. Energy storage does nothing, especially since glyph of lesser energy doesn't reduce binding ritual costs. Unless you use it for Painful bond (which is not worth giving up Spawning power or expertise for), which is one skill, then there is no benefit. You end up using skill slots instead of just putting points in expertise, whereas on a Rt/any you could just bring Spirit siphon.

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 04:30 AM // 04:30

thanx

its not that i doubt someones experience, but if you just say "its a crap build" with no explanation, you have given me no reason to trust your input

and i understand a Rit will always be better at using Rit skills, i was just kinda looking for a substitute until i got Xandra. and i'm kinda getting tired of using the same heroes all the time... maybe i'll just skip having a spirit spammer alltogether and see what i can do with the not so popular heros

shanx for inputs

DeanBB · Jan 11, 2011, 04:31 AM // 04:31

If this is for H/H then it really doesn't matter so long as it works for you. With all the skills in Channeling, I'd drop Spirit Siphon and max Energy Storage then bring another Channeling skill. Spirit Rift comes to mind without looking up the available skills. Of course if energy is an issue then leave it as is.

As pointed out, a Rit will run it better so you can replace the ele when you gain a Rit. Or bring both and have the Rit focus on other spirits.

Kunder · Jan 11, 2011, 04:55 AM // 04:55

I dunno, I almost sympathize with the guy. Going through the nightfall campaign is so dreadfully boring that playing a crappy knock off rit is an appealing choice.

Daesu · Jan 11, 2011, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

and i understand a Rit will always be better at using Rit skills, i was just kinda looking for a substitute until i got Xandra. and i'm kinda getting tired of using the same heroes all the time... maybe i'll just skip having a spirit spammer alltogether and see what i can do with the not so popular heros

I actually use a different set of heroes when playing with my paragon. I use paragon heroes because shouts and chants synergize with my paragon.

The hero team consists of a SoS command paragon hero, a motigon, and a MM:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:DarkS...ragon_Daesuway

I am coming up with a different build now, especially when the 7-heroes update comes about and I would be able to use a SoS rit with 3 paragon heroes then.

Rites · Jan 11, 2011, 05:10 AM // 05:10

lol, i'm glad you find it boring... as i am not an "Elite" player, i have actually found nightfalls to be the most challenging. WiK is the other set i seem to find a lil challenging as well, but eventually i'll get thru

as for the e/rit thing, i just wanted to try NOT to have to go thru the whole tournament again as i found that quite boring

@daesu
this is for a new toon, and only way to get para heroes is thru a.) about halfway thru NF, b.) asuran area of eotn (dont remember exactly where to get hayda but i know i've done it on my ranger). which means doing the tournament to get Xandra would actually be alot easier by far.

i did look at the builds, and will probably try them with the paras on my ranger to see if i like them on her (and look into getting my paras on my new toon later) ty for input tho

AndrewSX · Jan 11, 2011, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Almost every caster can run a SoS build...a rit is obviously superior(runes + spawing power) but you can have a different hero until you unlock a rit(end of NF, or early in Eye). Use a ranger for expertise, or trow in spirit siphon for energy.
Still, it should be always a temporary solution.

Spiritz · Jan 11, 2011, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Xandra actually has to be one of the easiest heros to get and she doesnt really take that much effort.Get to gunnars > load your chr a sos build ( its on pvx ) and do noen tournye and you should if lucky get xandra within a few mins ( round 3 ) - if she doesnt show just finish the tourney which is easy on sos as its only around 5 more mins to do then just repeat it.Ive had xandra on 6 chrs and only 2 needed me to repeat it.
Its not as if you need to run all way thru eotn for her.

Ok buildwise
flesh of my flesh is ok but many are split as it carries a penalty - if the target dies within the time period the caster dies and in a few situations it means 2 deaths in party and myself i prefer a better rez if possible.Spirit syphon and splinter weapon id drop - i prefer not to split into restoration as it can make attacks weaker as well as splinter weapon even as ele hero will be an energy drain as it will be spammed bigtime even with spirit syphon ( heros aint too bright at casting splinter weapon on melee chrs only ).

Chthon · Jan 11, 2011, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

sooooo..... trying something different is crap?? last i checked thats how builds are made is by trying something that most peeps haven't done.

There's a difference between promising "new" and stupid "new". Driving to work 80 miles per hour on the wrong side of a crowded freeway is indeed "something that most peeps haven't done," but I should not have to explain to you why it is not going to become the next big thing in urban transit.

Quote:

ok, waiting for a response from the more experienced people from this forum, so that i can at least get a reason as why my build is "crap"

1. This has been covered, repeatedly, every time someone decides to run SoS on X/Rt. I hate to be that person, but, use search. No, seriously, use search; at this point in the game, there is very little new under the sun, so search is almost certain to reveal what happened the last time someone tried your "new" idea. In this case, a simple search would have revealed all the reasons why E/Rt spirit spam is a bad idea, without making us all retype it. (That said, I'm pleased to announce someone showed me a combo I didn't know about today.)

2. Since you insist on getting it repeated in your own thread:
a. No Channeling rune or hat means spirits lose a ton of damage/armor/hp/duration/tax deductions.
b. No spawning power means spirits lose hp.
c. Neither EStorage nor any of the EStorage skills add anything very worthwhile to spirit builds.
So, to sum it up, you lose a ton of stats on the spirits and gain nothing for it.

3. Perhaps I'm just an old grouch who forgets what it was like to be new and inexperienced, but this one really should be so obvious it doesn't need explanation. Just go to the wiki look at how spirits work. It should be obvious that giving up attribute points in Channeling for anything short of the moon is going to be a very bad deal.

4. For better or worse, these boards are generally devoted to finding what works best, the "optimal," as many like to say. Things produced under artificial limitations that keep you away from alternatives that are obviously better (ex: I don't have rit heroes; I don't like PvE skills; I want to use a ranger in PvE) are only worthy of comment if (1) lots of other people care to play under the same limitations (ex: rangers in PvE) or (2) the exercise sheds light on fundamental aspects of the game that are larger than the limitations (ex: the recent UW competition (that was unfortunately canceled a few hours before bsns's team was likely to win it) was a wonderful object lesson in team build design fundamentals). Your limitation (not having finished much of the game in NM) is quite temporary and therefore rather uninteresting from a perspective of figuring out what works best in general.

Life Bringing · Jan 11, 2011, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

flesh of my flesh is ok but many are split as it carries a penalty - if the target dies within the time period the caster dies and in a few situations it means 2 deaths in party and myself i prefer a better rez if possible.Spirit syphon and splinter weapon id drop - i prefer not to split into restoration as it can make attacks weaker as well as splinter weapon even as ele hero will be an energy drain as it will be spammed bigtime even with spirit syphon ( heros aint too bright at casting splinter weapon on melee chrs only ).

Are you high? That made no sense. Flesh of my flesh isnt the one with the on-death clause, thats Death Pact Signet. Spirit siphon is your energy management(note that energy storage is not energy management), and splinter weapon does massive damage. The only resto skill that the ele has is flesh of my flesh, which doesnt require a resto spec to be used. If you were to drop anything, it would probably be agony

Just Sai · Jan 11, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spirit

check out the chart displaying spawning relating to spirit HP.

so many people underestimate the importance of this attribute in relation to binding rituals
they must play NM

...which, just btw while on topic, are not spells..... ie: enhc/40/40 is pointless

Daesu · Jan 11, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

@daesu
this is for a new toon, and only way to get para heroes is thru a.) about halfway thru NF, b.) asuran area of eotn (dont remember exactly where to get hayda but i know i've done it on my ranger). which means doing the tournament to get Xandra would actually be alot easier by far.

i did look at the builds, and will probably try them with the paras on my ranger to see if i like them on her (and look into getting my paras on my new toon later) ty for input tho

You can get Xandra to replace the SoS command Paragon, if you prefer. Just make her a Rt/P and wield a furious spear for anthem of envy. She won't have the spear damage and probably won't build up adrenaline as fast as a paragon with AR, but she would have level 14 channeling and bloodsong which makes up for it. The build that I have provided, allows for that.

Tharg · Jan 11, 2011, 02:35 PM // 14:35

try to do UW solo with an E/Rt and then try it with an Rt/X and you will see what the 4 extra attributes in Channeling will give you, not to mention the 86 or so extra health your spirits will have with 9 spawning power

tcratty · Jan 11, 2011, 02:56 PM // 14:56

its simple run whatever builds you like and yes use the ele/rit SoS until you get a rit hero if you like they still do massive amounts of damage still a better option if you have limited heros to use